BIONICLEsector01:Member Opinions Hub/Complaint Center

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Welcome to the Complaint Center of the Members Opinions Hub. This is the place where you may issue constructive complaints of the BS01 Wiki Staff. Please note that anybody who posts here shall be posting under a neutral stance. Staff members must not remove complaints unless they are non-constructive.

This page is for staff complaints only. For suggestions, improvements, general Wiki criticism and others, please post them on the main Members Opinions Hub.

Contents 1 ET 2 Shine 3 AfC 4 ET Once More

ET

...Just another complaint about the disgraceful behavior and disrespectful attitude of ET. See HERE for more. Honestly, he acts far worse than me, and I (respectfully) would like to know why Swert bothers to keep him in a position of authority after incidents like this. --Bold Clone _(Sandbox\^Contribs) 02:42, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

If the staff want to yell at each other, that's their business, not yours. -Shine

I'd very much appreciate if ET came to peace and took part in a civil discussion regarding his behavior. I, and a lot of us, respect him and his contributions, but this issue shouldn't keep coming up as often as it is. It has to come to an end at some point. ~

On a more practical note, him flaming at people/people flaming back means his talkpage is pretty much always locked. I wanna talk to the guy right now, in fact, but I can't. Valentine 17:29, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

I do believe ET could keep his temper down. Almost every time I edit, I worry that he might revert it. Sometimes he has even made me laugh because of how he expresses his temper, such as "GRRR!" or "OMG!". Despite this, I respect him for how attentive he is with patrolling the recent changes. I would stop criticizing him for his temper and how he gives no reason for his vote in the AFC, because he is just doing his job.--Vartemp ^{(Talk) (Contribs) (Sig Service)} 21:00, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Losing his temper is not part of his job. In fact, the ability to not lose your temper should be part of the job description, because there can be a lot of stress involved. If he can't control his temper...--Bold Clone _(Sandbox\^Contribs) 21:26, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm...curious as to whether any of those whom I have offended and have grievances against have observed a decline in my temperament from what it once was. While it is undeniable I have always possessed some anger issues, various real life factors manipulated me moreso than I wished them to. From my perspective, yes, I've gotten worse... --~|ET|~ ^(Talk/_Contribs) 02:10, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

It's okay, ET. I was a little turned off when you went crazy with that "OMG!" thing. I think the best thing to keep your temper down is to think before you write an angry comment. Trust me, currently, I have lots of stress in my life, and I feel like raging at people, but I tell myself to calm down, and try to come to an agreement with them.--Vartemp ^{(Talk) (Contribs) (Sig Service)} 02:22, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

By George, this is a revolutionary moment for us. :P ET, the main problem I have with how you act is that you revert something and don't explain it. For example, the version of the Vahi I uploaded: I now know that the problem was the transparency, but I would have appreciated that you told me so I could correct it. It still has that huge white blotch which I think should be fixed, but I'm afraid I'll get it reverted again. :P 04:04, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

You've got a point there, ET; you have gotten far better at controlling your temper, and you don't have to explain yourself if you don't want to. However, you still burst every now and then, and I'm now wondering if there were something I (and others) could do to help with the stress. --Bold Clone _(Sandbox\^Contribs) 18:08, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. ET, please give reasons why you revert our edits so we don't go complaining like we are.--Vartemp ^{(Talk) (Contribs) (Sig Service)} 19:55, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Quick point; I'm just complaining that ET still needs to work on controlling his temper and hold back from being rude. --Bold Clone _(Sandbox\^Contribs) 23:05, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

He recently called me a mildly offensive name. ----~The Saphire Shadow~ 23:45, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

How does anyone honestly expect me to be more gracious when those I offend respond with even worse attitudes than my own. That honestly only makes me more likely to lose it. Why do any of you do that? --~|RC|~ ^(Talk/_Contribs)

If the policies stated that you only had to treat others the way you should if the did the same to you first, then you would have your way. But that's not how they are. You could probably know that by now. You're breaking rules with the things you do, and you need to stop, that's all it comes down to. `Kraahlix

As a Staffer, ET, you are a very promient member. When you lose your temper and you appear to go unpunished, the only thing that makes me do is feel like the Staff are lax on punishing--that emboldens everyone else to be ruder, because the source isn't apparently punished. --Bold Clone _(Sandbox\^Contribs) 00:13, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

ET can be rude sometimes. He often yells at members. But the work he does for the wiki, in my opinion, more than makes up for that. I say we just put up with it, 'cause his work is a great chunk of what keeps this wiki running. Sad JMSOG ^{Bionicle's over}_{David Tennant Regenerated}^{This is horrible}

Say you're a new visitor to this site. Before joining, you look around and get acquainted with the communication system. Boom. You see ET breaking the rules. They freak out and think that this isn't a nice place to join. I'm paraphrasing of course, but this is how someone who's never been to this site before would feel seeing ET breaking the rules. Imagine on BZP, for lack of a better comparison, Black Six bypassed the word filter. People would be ALL OVER HIM about it. That's what I feel like seeing ET blatantly breaking rules. He basically holds the second highest position of authority here. And to see his reputation diminish with every blatant disrespect of the rules generally gives off a horrible vibe. It's not just that it makes us mad, it makes us...not want to be in the midst of somebody like that.

I am, by all means, not saying I don't like ET; in fact, he's a very respectable and intelligent person with great contributions to the wiki. He wouldn't have been hired otherwise. It's just this monstrous other side of his personality that isn't as likable as the other. I just want a trustworthy, rule-following GM who we can all look up to properly. 01:59, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

The problem, in my opinion, isn't about you as a person, ET. It's about your reactions to other people's reactions, and quite a lot of times, you end up over-reacting to people's comments as if they are an attack or something negative simply because they use a certain tone. (i.e. sarcasm, display of frustration, or just a flat tone which seems accusing etc.) For example, there was a case when somebody in a chat went "slowpoke" after you pointed out something which somebody already did. However, the term "slowpoke" was one which was frequently used as a joke, and because you normally weren't in that chat, you thought it to be an insult and was offended as a result, when it wasn't.

I think a good solution would be to look into the different variables and possibilities behind what a person says. Are they joking? Are they being offensive? Could they sound offensive, but really isn't? When it comes to sites like wikis and forums, it is hard to decipher one's meaning based on what they write. But, spending some time to look into a person's statements/arguments and analyse it could produce better results. By taking sometime to look into what something is being written, you get to set aside the initial surge of emotion which you get when you first read a potentially offensive statement, and reply to such a statement with a calm head and reason.

Obviously, I can't say that you don't do this, nor can I suggest that you find it easy to do such a thing. Different people have different problems on different things (I, for one, can't find humour out of most social jokes like the "Yo mama" ones), but if you haven't been doing this before, I suggest you could have a look into trying it out and seeing what results can be produced. Bioran ^{☺ (Talk) (Designs) (UP Designs) (KanohiJournal) ☺}

Since I sort of got involved with this, I'll just throw in my thoughts...

Sure, people's attitudes toward you can be a factor, but here's what I think the problem is, and I'm going to be very straightforward here. As a longtime GM, you've grown too comfortable and just don't care about the rules enough. It's simple. You as a person disagree with society in general and wish that everyone shared your viewpoint - "words are just words and we should be able to say what we want" - so you come to this site pre-biased.

We've got language-usage policies here for lots of reasons - the most obvious is that it is a kid's Web site. We're about a LEGO brand. Many parents wouldn't take their kids to with the words you've called them before.

But oh, we have oversight and I had someone hide it right away. That's the entirely wrong attitude to have about it. 1: Our policy makes no exceptions to staff who can cover up what they say. It's to be used for vandals and spoilers and such. How do we look going around with a bunch of hidden summaries? Not a very good example. 2: As you can see, that system doesn't work. One kid just saw you call him that offensive name before any other staff could do anything about it. That gives us a terrible reputation as staff and could drive anyone away from the site.

Another reason we have policies; offensive names offend people. Obviously. If you thought about it and asked yourself the question if that's the kind of thing you want to do as a person, you'd probably say no. You could get along (and I do mean this both ways - people would have more respect for you) with members by changing a few things. You'd see the difference quite soon, and I think you would enjoy it.

Clearly, things would be worse if we didn't have the language-usage policies we have. Also, things would be better if they were followed, and it would be especially great if our GM could set a good example. As a staff, the rules should be your number 1 priority. We're supposed to fallow them, set good examples, and enforce them. Being in charge of a site means making it run smoothly. It's obvious, to everyone, that you have had WAY more chances than we would ever give to anyone else. You've even been allowed to "avoid" punishment before. Many times you earned what regular members would get permanent blocks for, and you don't even seem to care. Like I said before, you don't seem to have respect for our rules.

ET, something needs to change. We can't do this forever because it's not good, it doesn't work, and for all our sakes I hope it is your attitude that changes. Please don't count on always getting more chances and getting away with breaking our policies. I'm not threatening you, I couldn't do that if I wanted to, I'm just warning you because you're a member of BS01 like everyone else.

That is what I think the main problem is. I wanted to say that because I thought this discussion was getting off-track, and because I've sensed that we have a level of understanding - you've been kind enough to listen to me before, so I thought it might be beneficial for me to tell you what I thought, and why I thought it. There are a few other things people can complain about; you're temper, the way you do certain things - but for now this is what needs to be addressed and the other things might fall into place.

I hope what I have said made sense, and is helpful. `Kraahlix

Everything Kraah said I agree with. ET calls people idiots just because they made simple mistakes. ET, just to say that I've seen you make mistakes too. On the other hand, you do sometimes puzzle me the way you don't give reasons to reverting edits. I only remember you giving reason twice for them.--Vartemp ^{(Talk) ( Contribs) (Sig Service)} 20:28, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

As a six-month-old member, I'd like to say that the first thing that I really noticed, after the attention of various members (mostly non-staff) who helped me understand the wiki's workings, was ET, and how he reverted edits which I then had to chase up and find out why, something that seldom happened with other staff members. Now, I'm a long-time BIONICLE fan and have been browsing the wiki as a non-member since 2007, but even so I was very tempted back then to just leave. I persevered, for reasons I myself can't fully explain. But I can easily imagine new members being turned away by ET's attitude to them, and his lack of patience for those who have barely been with the wiki a few weeks. And I don't think that's a good thing. Valentine 20:08, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

You know, you just brought back some of my memories of when I was a less than a week old BS01 member. ET pretty much objected to everything I suggested, though some of them are now there such as this. I actually thought of leaving, but a few other things that I later discovered convinced me to stay. ET must have this dislike for new member's ideas, which I think is a little unfair on the new member's part.--Vartemp ^{(Talk) ( Contribs) (Sig Service)} 22:52, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

He reverted a lot of my edits when I first joined up years ago. Later I realized it was because I didn't know what I was doing, and he did. `Kraahlix

Yeah. Most of it was the same thing. I look back to those edits and think that they were silly. ET still did seem to treat me sternly, and I've noticed he sometimes reverts edits from new members which I actually think are actually okay. He also doesn't seem to feel resentment in saying some strong things to new members, which is bad, since we could be losing would-be great editors.--Vartemp ^{(Talk) ( Contribs) (Sig Service)} 23:10, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

I understand his reversions of edits by new users who don't understand the wiki, but he's a lot less forgiving than other members/staff and his lack of explanations does come over as more than a little impatient and uncaring, even if that's not how he means it. Valentine 17:48, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

"Impatient". That's the word I was looking for. Whenever a new member makes a mistake when editing a page, like a red link, he might simply revert it and say something like, "OMG! He made a mistake. OMG!". His temper and impatience makes him do things that would get him banned, just like Trig said.--Vartemp ^{(Talk) ( Contribs) (Sig Service)} 18:32, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, and for the record, ET is a lot like me...except he has power, so 'gets away' with the same things that have got me banned. --Bold Clone _(Sandbox\^Contribs) 18:37, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Alright. Right now, I want to try and settle this, even with my insignificant opinion. ET has a temper. I've been on the receiving end of it many times. But he gets the job done. Swert picked him because he knows how to run this joint, and if he didn't have that ability, the bossman would have listened to you guys a long time ago, and just let him go. ET taught me how to work around this place, and it was because of him I am who I am on this Wiki. Come on, BC. You can't tell me you've never done something like OMG HE MADE A MISTAKE OMG? Sometimes, you're quick to jump on people, too. However, I still respect you, because you get the job done. The same case with ET. Hope you guys can settle this like men, and not little kids squabbling over the last piece of Halloween candy. :)---- 22:50, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I know I do it alot; my point is that when I overreact, the Staff ban me before they think. With ET, the Staff think, then ignore the incident because ET is Staff. At least, That's how I see it. --Bold Clone _(Sandbox\^Contribs) 23:45, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes SoT, he may get the job done, but look at what he does to newer members. His temper has also gotten him blocked, by saying bad language, like this.--Vartemp ^{(Talk) ( Contribs) (Sig Service)} 23:52, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

I have to disagree with that statement there, BC. Although I can't go into detail, I can assure you that a lot of the staff are very concerned and angry about his behaviour. It's just that Swert doesn't feel it's appropriate to do anything visual on the wiki.

Regardless, I think this discussion has ran its course - People seem to be repeating themselves now. Let's stop here and see if either ET or Swert wishes to respond. Bioran ^{☺ (Talk) (Designs) (UP Designs) (KanohiJournal) ☺}

Notice This problem has been addressed. You can take my word for it. `Kraahlix

Shine

I was very hesitant to say this, because I don't want to insult anyone's feelings and get blocked, but I've held this back long enough. Shine acts so much like...a human-robot hybrid lately. One example is, he reverted every edit I made on the Visorak set info, which said 48 pieces, while the main Visorak page said 47, which was correct. I told this to him, and through a discussion, his final response was, "WHAT HAS SCIENCE BECOME?!". This tells me that he can't stand to be corrected by a normal member, which is weird, since everyone makes mistakes. Some other things he does doesn't really seem robotic, like how Dark Light asked why he deleted his, along with two other users' page revisions. Shine's response was, "Because I'm an idiot". Dark Light did not understand that, along with me, and I still don't get it. Tell me, is Shine just rushing, or is he purposely doing this. If a normal member did things like he is, excluding his staff jobs, the normal member would be possibly blocked for a few days. Again, I have no desire to insult him.--Vartemp ^{(Talk) (Contribs) (Sig Service)} 20:24, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

That first point was him joking... Nothing to fret over.

And I know what you're talking about, and it was him "being an idiot." As in, a stupid ("idoit[ic]") mistake. We were discussing some things that shouldn't be said on the Wiki, and - obviously enough - being unable to say the words, we got ourselves confused and he thought I meant some other word (which I don't even remember now, but it's actually fine to us). So he started removing it from user pages, but no harm was really done. At least, I think that's what you're referencing.

Nothing you brought up would warrant anybody being blocked. --~|ET|~ ^(Talk/_Contribs) 20:39, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

I don't know, he sometimes is weird, but someway funny O_o --^{(Contributions/Sandbox/Talk)} 20:46, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Don't worry, Vartemp. It's how Shine works, and he's cool like that. :P Bioran ^{☺ (Talk) (Designs) (UP Designs) (KanohiJournal) ☺}

I just dont get it. I post a picture of a moc I made like alot of other people here and Shine banned me! He said its against the rules to post personal pictures. But I see A LOT of people uploading personal picture and they dont get banned! Somebody please give me an explination Shadowplayer3

They don't upload them directly to the wiki; they upload them to a file hosting site (brickshelf, majhost, flickr, etc) and then link to it from here, which is allowed. --Dorek (Talk| Contribs) 02:13, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

They do that, then use <img> tabs to externally use it.--Vartemp ^(Talk)

You continuously uploaded your images to the Wiki, which you were explicitely told not to do. Whether you understood a single thing we said or not (clearly not - though not a thing was confusing), you still should not have continued doing it. You have nothing to complain about, when you just brought it upon yourself. You are to blame. --~|RC|~ ^(Talk/_Contribs) 04:09, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

AfC

I think it would be nice if Staff members could be quicker to vote. Some almost never vote, which somewhat annoys me, and sometimes arguments just sit there for a time becuase everyone is waiting for votes and comments from staff members. Currently, all 7 nominations are being voted upon by staff. If we had a faster system of votes, it could certainly help speed up the process. Deebee\^Talk 03:15, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

The staff do have lives =/ they can't always be around, and sometimes they discuss behind the scenes about pages before casting their votes, which ultimately will decide the fate of the page. You just gotta be patient and hope as far as I can tell.Criebes _{nol va Zo;Tomana}^{V File}

Yes, but sometimes the time gets ridiculous. If a page is stalled for weeks and we haven't heard a thing from the staff, that's a problem. Deebee\^Talk 03:40, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

We talk, we think, etc. Heck, I'm still deliberating in my brain about the Mask of Charisma, and I'm usually one of the first to add my vote. --Dorek (Talk| Contribs) 04:16, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes, but you added a comment stating such. People who leave neither comment nor vote are the ones this complaint is directed towards. Deebee\^Talk 21:48, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Sorry if we dawdle, we'll try not to. `Kraahlix

ET Once More

Er: This is an edit summary, kinda shocked me:

(Oh. My. God. Vartempt, you're an idiot. WE HAVE THESE FOR A BLOODY REASON)

I...don't think that's allowed. Lord Nektann

He has to learn not to be vocal, no matter how angry he is.--Vartemp ^{(Talk) ( Contribs) (Sig Service)} 23:11, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I respect ET and all, but yeah, he is being very...belligerent. Then again, I sometimes feel that way about Dorek too. Especially in regards to Contest 4. He was a little "in-your-face" about why they picked alt. Teridax and not anyone else. --The Legend Reborn

Already explained my reasoning on the Alt Teridax one, so anything else I'm belligerent about? (I aboslutely adore that word, by the way. I just rolls of the tongue so well...) --Dorek (Talk| Contribs) 07:28, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

I sincerely apologise to ET for any offence my previous, poorly put comment may have caused. I meant no insult by a comment that was simply intended to suggest a better and less sizey way to manage what, unfortunately, seems to be a recurring topic on this page. Yeah. Sorry ET, man. And your voice was all I heard / That I'd get what I deserved 12:19, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Please, ET... Just don't cuss at us. `Cykron

Cykron, he didnt cuss at us. Yet. :P But he has gone overboard with the edit summaries. I know it personally, albeit I somewhat deserved it for my idiocy.--MatoroIgnika(^Contribs/_Awards)

I honestly think the guy deserves a break. I just want all of you to think about how much ET does for the wiki. It's probably more than me and most of my friends have done put together. He's really not that bad a guy. Nobody ever takes any of the good things he's done into consideration. Just think about that. And look at my sig. I am a wannabe. Because one day I want to be as good of an editor as him. Which will never happen. ET's one of the best there is and he gets little to no recognition for it. Shadonix, ever the wannabe ^{( Talk | N00btionary | Awards )}

I do have a lot of respect for ET, despite everything I've said. But you complain about him getting no recognition for his good work. There's a reason for that. Unlike other powerful editors, his good actions are overshadowed by his bad ones. He's done - and can do - some great stuff, but that's mostly ignored because of his bad actions. So you saying "stop giving him so much stick" is pretty unjustified. In a roundabout way, its his own fault no-one gives him the praise he really deserves for his achievements. Valentine 15:02, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Overshadowed? Seriously? Yeah, he's made some rash decisions. In my opinion, his are simply noticed more than those made by the rest of us. Take a look at Kraah's tp. I exploded at Vartemp there. Practically nobody said a thing. Why is it that when he makes even the slightest remark that could be interpreted the wrong way, everyone's all over him? As for his "bad" actions, ET only does what he thinks to be in the best interests of the wiki. He never deliberately does anything bad. Shadonix, ever the wannabe ^{( Talk | N00btionary | Awards )}