BIONICLEsector01:Member Opinions Hub

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Welcome to the Member Opinions Hub. This is the place where you can offer any suggestions, opinions, or criticism about the Wiki. As always, please remember to be constructive and polite when adding your piece to this page.

The ideas and comments posted here will be taken to the staff for analysis, and we will use your suggestions to make the Wiki a better place.

Any complaints about the staff should be posted here.

Hi,

I just logged in after being absent for a while, and I went to check 'My Contributions', but nothing came up -- it was all blank. Has something happened to that data, and is this confined to me? I referenced the page in the past for various reasons, so I did make use of it; and it is a little overwhelming that it seems to be wiped now. Thank you for your help. BiomechanicalIz 21:41, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

a large data explosion of a sort happened, if your edit was the last edit before it,then it went boon, along with most other things related to talk pages.http://biosector01.com{{SUBST::User Talk:Oratam/Sandbox}} 21:45, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for revealing that. Is it known here if the information/pages will come back, or the clear be undone? BiomechanicalIz 20:04, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

It cannot be undone. And what we've got now is all we're getting back - everything else must be recreated. --~|ET|~ ^(Talk/_Contribs) 20:12, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Shoot -- do you think WayBack or some such similar engine could offer a chance of retrieval? Sorry for sounding so desperate. BiomechanicalIz 19:59, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Certainly. That's why we've had message on the Main Page and the Recent Changes telling people to check Bing (though Google and other sources work as well) for their missing content since the site came back. ;) --~|ET|~ ^(Talk/_Contribs) 21:20, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

At an adequate chance, I will try searching. But, how would Google work in retrieving? I am not familiar with what actions would be required there. Also, not sure I can recall the actual names of the pages, as was advised for when a search is conducted on the Bing thing (if the exact names are even needed). Thank you to both. BiomechanicalIz 22:21, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Spoilers

Say, about spoilers...

Do you think a section devoted to them would work? I don't care about 2010 spoilers (what I've seen has me excited though ;D), but I know most people do. If what is known could just be on a "Spoiler:New Heroes for Next Year" (or whatever) index, I'd assume I wouldn't be the only one reading it. Lilfut

Ummmmmmmmmmm. No. We've got a clear stance on spoilers and a policy that must be followed. Doing what you suggest violates that. --~|ET|~ ^(Talk/_Contribs) 21:01, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

I know, but suppose we had them on their own, not allowed to be linked in normal pages? Can you at least provide a link to a website that does? Lilfut

It would still be on the site, which would be counterproductive. If you want to find something, then do some searching on your own. --~|ET|~ ^(Talk/_Contribs) 19:41, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Which is counter-productive to building a encyclopedia, which is aimed to be concise and complete. ----Melkor (Dark Council| Evil Plots| Utumno)) 20:22, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Right, because we didnt think of that and we had no reason to make the spoiler policy. we must have been trying to be counter-productive. `Kraahlix

Hacks

Some of you might have noticed on my userpage a few days ago, said I was saying my final words because I was hacked. Luckily, an anonymous friend somehow found out the password the hacker changed it to. After this, I was on the alert and decided not to go on here again. But the next day, I had this idea that I could make a longer and more complex password with capitals inserted randomly. That way, I would not have to give away my email address.(I'm very cautious about that)I think you should limit the password to a certain amount of characters, like on the MLN register page, to make it harder for users to be hacked.-~The Master of Ice and Fire

I find it difficult to believe you were actually hacked to have your BS01 account used (if you were just hacked in general, then that's very different - and unfortunate - but you should've had more pressing concerns than this account). Do you have any siblings that could've just messed with your account?

Anyways, it's not a bad idea. It is, however, something Swert would have to do and he's currently not around. --~|ET|~ ^(Talk/_Contribs) 22:34, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

I do have a younger sibling, but I had a serious discussion with him, and I am dead sure now he did not do it. I think it's just that my password was only seven letters long, and had no capitals. I can hardly believe I was hacked either, just like how I can't believe that that friend of mine saw my blank userpage(the hacker erased it) and tried typing in every password, username (even from other sites),etc. and eventually found the password the hacker changed it to. I really think you should use my idea.(That friend actually was going to retire from the wiki also, until I told him my idea)-~The Master of Ice and Fire

So... your friend just guessed this password that a hacker changed it to?
Well there's no way he could have changed your password. That's a staff ability. `Kraahlix

Not to jump in, or cast aspersions on your friend, but maybe you need to ask him about the password thing =/ and actually if a hacker could get into an account they could easily change the password for that account, just no others, I'd talk to anyone who even might know your password.Zoxara Tomana_{V File}؟^{The Last Assault}

In essence, your password was guessed by a hacker. Despite every security measure that exists pretty much ever, that's the one thing that's impossible to guard against. Even if we limit the characters, a weak password is still a weak password, or you left clues (or even the password itself) that were put together by the hacker to gain access to your account. It's a rarity, but in the end, there isn't much we can do about it, other than encourage you all to have really super awesome passwords. --Dorek (Talk| Contribs) 23:13, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

That's exactly what happened Dorek. To add to that, my friend knew I would never erase all content on my page, so he took action.-~The Master of Ice and Fire

But removed content is easily retrievable in a few clicks. And I find it hard to believe that your friend could so quickly guess a password for you.
Anyway, if you want to request a minimum password-character feature, you can ask Swert when he gets back. `Kraahlix

What we're trying to say is that this single account probably wasn't hacked, but your friend was the one who changed the password in the first place... --~|ET|~ ^(Talk/_Contribs) 00:59, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

No, that wasn't what happened. He got so worried when I asked him about that, he doesn't want to talk about it, and I trust him.-~The Master of Ice and Fire

I understand that you trust your friend. However, it is entirely possible that he is simply acting innocent. In fact, from what you said about him becoming worried when you asked him about it, and refusing to comment further, further supports such a claim.

It is very unnatural for a hacker to simply spend time guessing your password, then logging in and not perform any sort of malicious action against the wiki, or post obscene comments on your pages etc. Plus, the fact that your hacker guessed your password, and then your friend guessed the password the hacker made is very suspicious. (Where would he get the clues as to what password the hacker changed it to? Either the your friend knows the hacker, or your friend is the hacker. It is very unlikely for him to be able to simply guess the password which the hacker chose.) If a hacker truly wanted you to not be able to access your account again, he/she would have typed in a series of nonsense so that nobody can guess it. Clearly, whoever logged into your account only meant to do it for fun and did not want to harm you in anyway, and the most logical answer to that is your friend.

Of course, it is entirely possible that it was indeed a hacker, and that something highly unlikely occurred by chance, but the evidence seems to point against it. However, if it is your friend, I recommend you to just let it pass. Clearly your friend only did it for fun and have no intentions in harming your friendship. Bioran ^{☺ (Talk) (Designs) (UP Designs) (KanohiJournal) ☺}

Thanks Bioran for stopping this disscusision. I got the answer I wanted from ET.-~The Master of Ice and Fire

(Gulp)

Well, hello... I have an idea, please hear me out. I was thinking, since "The End" is near for the Bionicle sets, the wiki should do something about it. Like a petition to the Lego company to do something special for the fans. Like, a Bionicle music CD of all the classic Bionicle tracks and some new classic bionicle style techno music tracks, or something else. It's just an idea, but it really interested me. `Cykron

BS01 definitely wouldn't be the place to do it, and there is already a similar movement on BZP. --Dorek (Talk| Contribs) 23:54, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Oh really... Hmmmm... If we could get together under the same banner, (on BZP =P) and agree on an idea... I would have to talk to someone. Don't know who. Any recommendations? `Cykron

Binky. `Kraahlix

The current idea is that of a Great Spirit set, and that's the one with the most leverage right now. --Dorek (Talk| Contribs) 00:12, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

I was just wondering. Man, I wish we could do it here. It's much easier to do a petition here than on BZP. Navigating BZP is like wandering the Great Mine with a wet match. :P Could you guys talk to Swert or other staffers about this? I don't wan't to be pushy or rebellious, but, I mean, a major part of bionicle is ending! We should do SOMETHING special. `Cykron

Like I said before, this just isn't really the place for it. BZP, as a forum, is much more suited to hosting a petition of any kind (which it is doing, right now) so go check out the topic there, and lend your support. --Dorek (Talk| Contribs) 07:15, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Spam page?

Just an idea. A wiki I used to go on (the Wiki User Wiki) used the sandbox as a place where people could just spam for the heck of it. They later created a "Spambox" so the sandbox could be used for coding, but it helped keep people from spamming elsewhere, and also became a chatroom (until someone inevitably blanked it). I think something like that should be here. Lilfut

Sounds interesting, but the staff would disagree. ----Melkor (Dark Council| Evil Plots| Utumno)) 16:25, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Never. Spam should not be allowed ANYWHERE.~Seanp12

Baterra Contest

I think that we should have a Baterra Building not-exactly-contest to see what different users think what a Baterra will/does look like. (Just...curious...) ~Rahi374(^talk|^sandbox) 07:35, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

The staff as a whole aren't interested in doing these contests all that often. Once a year, maybe, if that.
The Baterra will be illustrated in the upcoming Graphic Novel BIONICLE 8: Legends of Bara Magna, so you will see them when that comes out. --Dorek (Talk| Contribs) 07:57, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Oh. ~Rahi374(^talk|^sandbox) 09:24, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Besides, Baterra can look like anything. They're shape-shifters, remember? ----~The Saphire Shadow~ 19:13, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

But shapeshifters cannot exist without having one definitive form. If Tahu could shapeshift, his definitive form would be his current Toa form. He'd be illustrated as that as well. It is only when one is changing their form when they take on a different appearance. So basically, Baterra are going to be illustrated according to what they're default form is.

19:28, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Cool story guys. Way to comment on a dead issue >>. --Dorek (Talk| Contribs) 19:33, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

I was commenting more on what SS said than the actual issue at hand. :P

01:44, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Quesion on Toa disk

Ehm, excuse if I disturb but I would make a little question: if the disk of gravity exist does exist also the disk of fire, the disk of water ecc... and they can be crafted in Kanohi mask with those powers?(The preceding unsigned comment was made by Deinosuchus)

Yes, at least 7 other Toa Disks are known to exist. Hypothetically, they can be made into Kanohi. --Bold Clone _(Sandbox\^Contribs) 16:49, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

So not counting Light and Shadow that are unusual elements (Takanuva is the firt and unique toa of Light and Toa of Shadow don't originally exist) there are other 14 elemental kanohi mask (one is the Garai ) that can be crafted by kanoka and we don't knows? [[User:Deinosuchus>]]

Can be created, not necessarily have been. That would also require those elemental disks, which we don't know if they exist or not. --Dorek (Talk| Contribs) 17:55, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

So, for the moment this is a dead end?[[User:Deinosuchus>]]

Unless Greg brings Toa Disks or Elemental Kanohi back into the picture (which, given the upcoming Toa serial, is a possibility), for now, yes. --Dorek (Talk| Contribs) 18:03, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Thaks to every one [[User:Deinosuchus>]]

Tools Relevance Policy

I've never had to post here before, but I believe that the staff should at least think about a tools relevance policy. Currently, two pages are up for nomination in AFC/AFD respectively: Barbed Broadsword and Seismic Spear. Barbed Broadsword will most likely be denied a page, despite having possibly more info than Seismic Spear and being mentioned-in story, while Seismic Spear will most likely be kept because it was mentioned in-story. There has been a heated debate that had to be deleted by Dorek, and there has been accusations of a double-standard. I would prefer it to require an in-story appearance (not just mention) AND and example usage or image, but I'd leave that up for debate, I just want to see what the staff and fellow wiki members think.--Toa Nidhiki05: Toa of Air ^{Talk | Contributions | Userbox Library} 18:23, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

I agree with TN5. --Bold Clone _{(AfC it!}\^{AfD it!)} 18:48, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Suuuuuuuuureeeeeee.....c'mon, why can't you just let it go? It has an appearance. It matches the Policy. End of story. Deal with it.----

21:56, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes, it has an appearance, but no image OR example usage. And BTW, there is no policy. That is why I suggested this. Please do not start arguing, guys.--Toa Nidhiki05: Toa of Air ^{Talk | Contributions | Userbox Library} 22:41, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

The Barbed Broadsword fits the Policy and yet it's going to be denied a page, SoT. Hmm...--Bold Clone _{(AfC it!}\^{AfD it!)} 22:43, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

The Barbed Broadsword has no usage, though. Like you said, just a gesture. On the other hand, the spear was probably used to kill Brutaka. If you want, one of us could PM Greg and ask him about it. In addition, the Barbed Broadsword doesn't have an image, either, so that example doesn't work.----

Meh. I'd rather not. TN5 has a point. This could become like...well...like last time I got in a fight of this scale. --Bold Clone _{(AfC it!}\^{AfD it!)} 22:47, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

SS has no image, yet when I bring up the BB, you discount it because it has no image? Hmm...--Bold Clone _{(AfC it!}\^{AfD it!)} 22:49, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Didn't you say you were going to shut up?----

22:58, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Nope. I never did. Where did I say that? --Bold Clone _{(AfC it!}\^{AfD it!)} 23:06, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

I offered to settle the issue and PM Greg about it, but you said, "Meh, I'd rather not. This could be like my last fight.", so I presumed you'd quit and just agreed to shut it. Too bad.----

No, I meant I didn't want to bother GregF about it and that on a side note I didn't want this to be like the time when I fought ZT and the Respect Policy was deleted. --Bold Clone _{(AfC it!}\^{AfD it!)} 23:12, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

I sent Greg the PM. Can we please stop this debate until I get a response?--Toa Nidhiki05: Toa of Air ^{Talk | Contributions | Userbox Library} 23:15, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Sure, I'll agree to a truce. --Bold Clone _{(AfC it!}\^{AfD it!)} 23:19, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

You guys actually bothered Greg about our policies. Wow. Super fail on that one.

No. We don't need to make a policy for every tiny, insignificant thing. This is why I like the AfC/AfD. In theory, it is meant to be a tool to show what people think should, and should not, be pages. Regardless of policy, it just shows what you, the populace, want to exist on the wiki. We all have our personal (read: PERSONAL. Like, feelings. You know, emotions and all that jazz? I've got 'em, I sincerely hope the rest of you do) feelings on what should exist, which is why it works. Policy eradicates that. And while we try to stay professional, and overwhelming amount of rules and restrictions takes the humanity out of it.

I have faith in the Af system, despite how people abuse it. --Dorek (Talk| Contribs) 23:35, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

I suggested (and still suggest) a simple addenundem to the Relevance Policy regarding tools. Where the idea of an entire new policy came from...IDK. --Bold Clone _{(AfC it!}\^{AfD it!)} 23:42, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

BTW Dorek, the question was not about policy. I just asked if DM Bomonga killed DM Brutaka with his Seismic Spear.--Toa Nidhiki05: Toa of Air ^{Talk | Contributions | Userbox Library} 23:51, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Ah, nevermind on that one then.

Basically, if people would actually respect the Af system, we wouldn't need all the little mini rules and whatnot. --Dorek (Talk| Contribs) 23:56, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

IMO, it is hard to trust the Af system when nominations regarding two very similar pages (BB and SS) have two very different outcomes. I trust it in most situations, but not regarding tools. BTW, would it be OK if we can put future comments strictly regarding the Seismic Spear/Barbed Broadsword to the SS talk page? I'd rather this be discussing the proposed idea instead of being an argument about the two pages.--Toa Nidhiki05: Toa of Air ^{Talk | Contributions | Userbox Library} 00:05, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

BIONICLE page

I think it needs to be changed, a lot, and I think the wiki agrees. So, I'm going to take the coding to my sand,and re-write as an example. Who else thinks its horrible? Lord Nektann

Based on how the votes and comments fell for "History of the BIONICLE franchise" in the AfC, I'd say...

Me
Triggy
Shine
Aravagantos
Seanp12
Arezey
Toa Mata Nui
Toavezon
Twilight Avenger
Bold Clone
Toa Nidhiki05: Toa of Air

Not sure why Swert still denying it, but it's clear that a great number of members are unhappy with the BIONICLE page. Lord Nektann, your sandbox is a good start at improving it, but there's a lot more to be done-- ideally, the page would be unlocked and this could be done collaboratively, the way a wiki's supposed to operate. That, of course, depends on Swert's cooperation, and I'm in no way suggesting that he would not (as head of staff) have the final judgement on whether edits to the page distance it from its intended purpose. But as it is, the BIONICLE page is pathetic compared to the LEGO page or similarly informative articles.--

|Talk|Contributions 01:15, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Agreed on all counts Lord Nektann

If Swert agrees to unlocking the page, or even to creating a separate page, then I'll help out. --Bold Clone _(Sandbox\^Contribs) 01:44, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Aight, it's simple, the problem with unlocking the page is thus: because you all have very strong opinions as to what this article should be like (and this isn't a bad thing, but it creates problems) you all want it in your own image. Ideally, of course, collaboration is the best method, but as unlocking it before has proven, it doesn't work out that well. Because you all want it to be how you envision, you try and make large edits; however, people often interrupt these large edits with tiny edits of their own, and eventually the page is just being sniped at with a fraction of everybody's opinion. We can't unlock it, because teamwork, in respect to this page, is impossible. I'm not saying you all are bad at it, I'm just saying it's happened before, and will happen again.

Now. With that in mind, if everybody who thinks they can make a better page comes up with their own version, you all can then look at it, and vote on which page you think is the best. Does this sound fair? --Dorek (Talk| Contribs) 02:22, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Yep. I'm just too lazy to bother creating my own version of the page. :P --Bold Clone _(Sandbox\^Contribs) 02:24, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

@Dorek: I don't seem to remember any flame wars the last time we tried to improve this page. In fact, a lot of people made really constructive edits. Meanwhile, I suppose I can attempt a sandbox version myself (even though it'll take a lot of time).--

|Talk|Contributions 17:29, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Not flame, there were just a ridiculously large number of small edits that didn't end up improving the page much. --Dorek (Talk| Contribs) 17:33, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Here is the thing, the reason I've denied it is because I feel the BIONICLE page should record the set history. Now, I do not know what your plans were, but if they contradict this goal in mind, then I can't approve it. IF you wish to keep the history of sets on this page, I will consider rewrites. -- ^{Owner (Talk / BS01)} 00:52, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Toa Nidhiki Building contest

I think we should have a Toa Nidhiki Building Challenge because I'm sure many fans, Along with me, want to know what Nidhiki looked like as a toa. One of the rules could be it has to use a kanohi Volitak. Shadowplayer3

As a general note to everybody, we're not really taking suggestions for these contests. We're perfectly aware of which ones we can do; when the time comes for a contest (which won't be for a loooooooong time) we'll pick something appropriate. --Dorek (Talk| Contribs) 02:15, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Piraka (Disambiguation)

I don't know if this belongs here or the AfC, but does anyone else think we could use a disambiguation page for Piraka? We have three uses for that word (The Matoran near-obscenity, the Piraka, and the product name for Nektann), more than some other pages like Kodan Ball and Ice Shield. --Toa Nidhiki05: Toa of Air ^{Talk | Contributions | Userbox Library}

At the most, we would stick the "you may" template on it; any word relations usually goes in trivia (such as Hagah, or Manas). --Dorek (Talk| Contribs) 21:16, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Alright, I'll add that. --Toa Nidhiki05: Toa of Air ^{Talk | Contributions | Userbox Library}

TimeWaster

Er, Timewaster's using templates on his userpage. I've told him that he can't do that, but I haven't gotten a response yet. Could ~~someone~~ a staffie take care of that please?

I know, I know. I'm a hippocrit, cuz I'm guilty of that myself.--Toa Jala has spoken... 21:17, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

It's actually 'TimeWaster', but I believe you should go to a staff members talk page to alert them. Also, TW has most likely not seen your message, ss the last time he edited was the 24th, and you posted on the 25th. :) Toa Nidhiki05: Toa of Air ^{Talk | Contributions | Userbox Library}

Dang, I knew I spelled it wrong! And I figured he hadn't seen it yet, but I thought if a staffie could fix it now, then the sooner the better.--Toa Jala has spoken... 21:33, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, and they probably will. :) `Toa Nidhiki05: Toa of Air ^{Talk | Contributions | Userbox Library}

Element Page Colors

I am seeing some terrible problems with the way element pages currently denote colors:

First, the templates give an uncalled-for preference to Toa Mata color schemes. They ignore the color schemes of Bara Magna denizens (for which Jungle has slightly different colors), as well as the many Matoran color schemes that have been seen.
The system is needlessly specific. Why call Ice's secondary color "light gray" and exclude Kopeke and many other Matoran, when it's just as easy to call it just plain "gray"? Why have a secondary color of light blue for Water when light blue is really just another type of blue? For that matter, why distinguish between primary and secondary colors at all, when they're so often interchangeable among Matoran and other species? Listing the general primary color first should be all it takes to make it clear that "this one is most important".

Ideally, here's what the colors would be:

Fire: Red, orange, and yellow.
Water: Blue. All other major colors, besides anomalies like white and lime, are types of blue.
Air: Green. All other major colors are types of green.
Ice: White, gray, and blue.
Stone: Brown, tan, yellow, orange, and black. No reason to leave off black, since it appears on several Po-Matoran, on Toa Mahri Hewkii, and as the standard color for Bara Magna denizens. Technically, tan and brown are types of yellow and orange, but they're less obvious ones than dark and light shades for other elements. It'd be nice if we could knock them off this annoyingly long list and bring this to three colors, but it wouldn't be realistic and would give people false expectations of the element.
Earth: Black and gray. There were quite extreme anomalies like purple and orange among Matoran, but black and gray were the colors that unified the element since the beginning.
Jungle: Green and blue. That basically includes everything without making it seem like blue is an essential part of the color scheme (since it isn't for Bara Magna denizens).
Light: white and gold.

All the other elements have never really been seen on beings that follow elemental color rules, thus it's simple to just list the colors Greg's given us.

Anyone else feel the same way? Anyone have any ways to improve my proposed system, the current system, or any entirely different alternative systems? Anyone think I'm just crazy?--|Talk|Contributions 23:15, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

You're crazy. :) Erebus

I made that too easy, didn't I? =P --

|Talk|Contributions 23:22, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

The only thing I see is, the template is specifically FOR Matoran Universe colors. Iron is Blue and Grey in BM, but Gunmetal and dark orange in the MU, hence the weirdness.

I'm for getting rid of that part of the template entirely, and just specifying it on the sections. --Dorek (Talk| Contribs) 23:43, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

I'd support that. The sections are a lot more reliable, and it makes no sense to make readers assume the template is just for the MU when the page is for anywhere the elemental power exists.--

|Talk|Contributions 23:48, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

It's just one of those things that didn't really survive the transition from MU only to "galactic scale". I tried fitting both MU and BM on there, but it didn't work. Unless we wanna make a new template section entirely.

The only thing about getting rid of it is that it's so empty afterward. --Dorek (Talk| Contribs) 23:51, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

That's the reason I thought making it into generic lists in the first place would be better than having a "primary" and "secondary" section that applies only to the Toa Mata. If we were to make them generic lists, we might even have more content on the template, especially if there were separate Spherus Magna and MU sections (admittedly my plans for just one section don't really work with Iron's Bara Magna colors-- I didn't know Greg had ever confirmed those). Given that there doesn't seem to be any hope of shortening the list for Stone, we might as well even add tan, orange, and purple to Earth.

If you've seen my sandbox, you'll see I've been doing work with the official LEGO colors. Rest assured I'm not hoping for us to start using those; those are mostly for my use in artwork and for helping me visualize color schemes. I can use that to try to organize the lists so none are way too long or short.--

|Talk|Contributions 00:07, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

The problem I have with that is that it's so general, so people might then think a tan and purple Toa would be a Toa of Earth. --Dorek (Talk| Contribs) 00:24, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Good point.--

|Talk|Contributions 00:25, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

You're still crazy. :) Erebus

Hey, as long as other people agree having a Toa Mata-centric infobox on these pages makes little sense, I must be at least halfway sane. If only we could come up with something to do about that...--

|Talk|Contributions 12:54, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Alternate universe headings

Should we have all alternate versions of a character on another heading instead on the Biography heading? Say, we have Matoro. There, we have:

Biography
1. Matoran
2. Toa Inika
3. Toa Mahri
4. The Kingdom Alternate Universe

It kind of gives the innate feeling that after death Matoro ended up in the Kingdom. This becomes especially annoying on pages with multiple alternate versions of characters, like Teridax. Thus, I suggest having an "Alternate Versions" heading (or something similar). And Matoro would become:

Biography
1. Matoran
2. Toa Inika
3. Toa Mahri
Alternate Versions
1. The Kingdom Alternate Universe

Gives a better feeling of organization here IMHO. What do you guys think about it..? --arezey (user | talk | contribs) 15:37, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

They're clearly marked alternate universes. I see no problem here. --~|RC|~ ^(Talk/_Contribs) 20:17, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Time for ET to have a TP

It's unacceptable to have a GM without a talk-page, and the events leading up to its deletion are also unacceptable. Just so everyone's on the same page, here's what happened put simply:

ET called a member something that was insulting to them, and many people over-reacted, whether it be because they just don't like ET, wanted to pick a fight, wanted to look macho and stand up for their friend, whatever... the reaction was unacceptable. ET later responded by saying that he doesn't find the word "idiot," which was what was used, to be harmful. He went on to say that he hears it every day, so he's basically desensitized to it. He shouldn't call anyone that on here, but it was just an honest mistake - nothing that everyone needed to get all worked up about. I think Vartemp will accept an apology, and everyone else can stay out of it and give ET a break. Seriously. Things shouldn't come to this point. `Kraahlix

I fully agree, it's soooo hard to try and talk to him about things that concern only him. If for any other reason he should have a talk. Lord Nektann

That depends on if people can be civil or not. Given past history, it's an unlikely thing. I'll agree that given the amount of editing ET actually does (which is a lot) means that he probably should have one, but at the same time, I respect why he doesn't want one in the first place. Present this to him, but I think he should ultimately be the one to decide. --Dorek (Talk| Contribs) 02:03, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

It's pretty much necessary. Uncivil behavior will have consequences as always. `Kraahlix

Isn't it clear he doesn't want to talk to ANYONE? If it was idiotic comments that concerned him about, he'd've just protected it. Kinda none of anyone's business either. -Shine

It's incredibly inconvenient for him not to have a talk-page, and it doesn't even deserve to be deleted. When it becomes an issue, it's alright to be addressed. `Kraahlix

I'd just like to comment that I agree with Dorek. I was actually hoping to make that point. ET should talk but then again, I truly doubt that everyone is going to remain unbiased or "civil". -Grant-Sud-^{(Mail/Contributions)} 02:37, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

I'd have to agree with Kraah there.--`Vartemp (^Talk /_Contribs)

I think it'd be nice for ET to have a talkpage. I understand that he deserves our respect, and that's part of the reason why I feel he ought to have a talkpage-- after all, if you have to question one of his edits, you're forced to do so on the page he edited or on the MOH or CC, which feels like you're making a personal misunderstanding or issue some type of public grievance. I'd much rather just go to his TP and politely ask "ET, why did you do such-and-such?" or "Wouldn't such-and-such be a better solution?" than to treat it like his edit's everybody's business (and risk attracting hostility from people who dislike ET).

As it is, I understand that people are more reluctant to voice their concerns about ET's edits because he lacks a TP-- in fact, that's probably why he got rid of it, since so many people seem to treat any mistake of his as part of some broader issue. But we all have emotional issues (or at least, I know I do), and I'd like it if more civil and empathic members had a way to approach ET without hesitation.--|Talk|Contributions 03:00, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

The problem is...people won't be civil and polite. I support ET's decision about not having a TP, cause so many people complain and get rude over tiny little thing just because it is ET. No one respects him save a rare few, so why should he have a TP just so that the many can attack him? I can't help but say he's entitled to not have one. Criebes & Tomana^{V File}

It's just that the people who disrespect him are more vocal. That's how it always is. He needs a talk-page, and personal attacks won't be tolerated on there just like they wouldn't be anywhere else. `Kraahlix

May i just say my opinion? i think it's kinda up to ET whether he has a T ot. Anyone could request theirs deleted, and it would stay that way. It's their decision. JMSOG, Not JSMOG ^Dictionary_Talk

The thing is, he is a General Manager. What would happen if Swert, Erebus, and ET all had no talk-pages? It would be worse. It's bad enough already. `Kraahlix

I have to respectfully disagree; there is no rule "anyone" has to have a talk page. ET has every right to not have one; it usually devolves into an 'I hate ET' soapbox. As much as I would like to agree with you, no member should be forced to have a talk page. TN 05

Kraahlix has a point though. No member should be forced to have a Talkpage, that's true. But ET has to have one. He is a General Manager and has to be informed of things by the regular members. I agree with that. And I'll say that, if things remain undercontrol and the staff watch for sly remarks that could erupt, then ET should probably make one again. But, as stated above, I doubt people are going to remain quiet when it comes to certain aspects. -Grant-Sud-^{(Mail/Contributions)} 18:52, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Seriously, people. This is not hard to understand. No one is forcing ET to have a talk-page, if he was going to be forced, he would have been forced already. >_> If there was a rule everyone had to have one, he would have one.

This is not a pity-party for ET. It's inconvenient for him not to have a talk-page. He should have one, it shouldn't have been deleted in the first place.

You're exaggerating what it turns in to. If it got anywhere close to the hate you mentioned, it would be dealt with immediately. `Kraahlix

I'd say something, but it'd basically agree with Kraa that ET should have a TP, if simply for convinence. However, I would like ot point out that those anti-ET also have a point: ET is a good editor, but he does have a tendancy to be rude and break the rules. I mean, look at me. That stuff happens to me at least once a month. --Bold Clone _(Sandbox\^Contribs) 19:01, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

...And it's easy to address any abuses of power on a case-by-case basis in the Complaint Center, and civilly at that. Nobody should be "anti-ET"-- he might frustrate people or have character flaws, and the same often applies to all of us, but setting him up as an enemy is part of the reason his TP and others used to descend into tiresome arguments when those issues reared their heads.

ET used to get on my nerves back in the day as well, since he's very firm in every decision he makes (and I was a bit of a radical back then), but he was still one of the staff members I felt most comfortable seeking advice or approval from, and I kept his TP on my watchlist for some time in my early days on the Wiki. I'd really like if his TP were still an available resource for such purposes.--

|Talk|Contributions 19:24, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

ET's TP I do believe is needed, because ER isn't very active, so we need an almost 24/7 active GM's TP to be available.--`Vartemp (^Talk /_Contribs)

Please restore your talk-page, ET. `Kraahlix

Protected Help Pages

I don't understand why almost all of them are protected. They're supposed to be unprotected so members can pass their knowledge to the next generation. The only help page that should be protected is the BoT page.--(^Talk /_Contribs)